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1 1O94
INTERLOCKING
GOVERNMENT

SUBVERSION IN
DEPARTMENTS

[Activities of United States Citizens in Red China]

HEARING
BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE
ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS
OF THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
ON

INTERLOCKING SUBVERSION IN GOVERNMENT
DEPARTMENTS

DECEMBER 13, 1954

PART 27
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
82918

IIIIIIIII'''

WASHINGTON : 1955

S4

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
WILLIAM LANGER, North Dakota, Chairman
ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin
HARLEY M. KILGORE, West Virginia
JAMIES 0. EASTLAND, Mississippi
WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana
ESTES KEFAUVER, Tenzdessee
ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah
ROBERT C. HENDRICKSON, New Jersey
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina
THOMAS C. HENNINGS, JR., Missouri
EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
HERMAN WELKER, Idaho
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland
J. G.

SUBCOMMITTEE

SOURWINE, Counsel

To INVESTIGATE THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS

WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana, Chairman
JAMES 0. EASTLAND, Mississippi
ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina
ROBERT C. HENDRICKSON, New Jersey
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
HERMAN WELKER, Idaho
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland
ALVA C. CARPENTER, Chief Counsel and Executive Director
J. G. SoURwINB, Asociate Counsel
BENJAMIN MANDEL, Director of Research

CONTENTS
Testimony ofAnderson Clarence L. Maj., Medical Corps, United States Army..
Aubrey, Carl L., Lt. ol., United States Army ------------------Bach, Lawrence B., Jr., Maj., United States Air Force ------------Bell, Frank 0
-------------------------------------------Burns, Robert J., Maj., United States Air Force-----------------Daltry, Raymond, Maj., United States Army -------------------Gill, Delores Holmes --------------------------------------Kopischkie, Carl E United States Army ------------------------ -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -McManus Robert
O'Dowd, Paul T., Jr., Capt., United States Army ----------------Powell, Svlvia Campbell -----------------------------------Wolfe, Claudius 0
---------------------------------------

Page.
2236
2247
2259
2196
2250
2228
2200
2262
2215
2254
2162
2220

Statement of Senator Herman Welker, acting chairman, Senate Internal
Security Subcommittee ..--------------------------------------

2240

I

I

INTERLOCKING SUBVERSION IN GOVERNMENT
DEPARTMENTS
MONDAY, DECEMBER 13, 1954

UNITED STATES SENATE,
SUBCOMMITTEE To INVESTIGATE

THE ADMINISTRATION
OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL

SECURITY LAWS OF THE CoMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,

San Francisco, Calif.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10: 30 a. m., in the audi-

torium of the Department of Health Building, 101 Grove Street,
San Francisco, Calif., Hon. Herman Welker presiding.
Present: Senator Welker.
Also present: Alva C. Carpenter, counsel; Benjamin Mandel, research director; and Robert McManus and Louis R. Colombo, professional staff members.
Senator WELI[ER. The meeting will come to order.
The hearing today concerns the activities of American citizens in
behalf of Communist China. This hearing is a continuation of hearings held in Washington, D. C., on September 27 and September 28.
We heard a number of witnesses, some prisoners of war who had suffered incredible tortures in Communist Chinese prison camps. A central figure in the hearings held in Washington, D. C., was John W.

Powell, former editor of the China Monthly Review published in
Communist China. Former prisoners of war described how the China
Monthly Review was used for indoctrinating Americans in Communist prison camps. Failure to accept such indoctrination resulted
in penalties ranging all the way from beating, solitary confinement

and starvation to the withholding of medical treatment, food, and
in many cases, in death.
John W. Powell, we hope, will be our first witness today. I might
say that he has been roaming the country of the United States of
America, free to continue what the committee feels is the vicious
propaganda that he started in Communist China.
We shall today hear from additional prisoners of war, not used in
Washington, D. C., who were subjected to this indoctrination. We
shall hear from Sylvia Powell,, who will be identified at a later time.
We shall hear from the widow of one American Army officer who
died in the cruel hands of his Chinese Communist captors in a Korean
prison camp. This lady will tell you under oath of her dealings with
John W. Powell, who the committee feels is certainly living high and
mighty in the city of San Francisco, Calif.
Mr. Carpenter, the chief counsel of the subcommittee, will call the
first witness.
-,1TER. John W. Powell, please.
Mr. C

2161

2162,
Senator

INTERLOCKING SUBVERSION IN GOVERNMENT
WELKER.

Is John W. Powell in the hearing room at this

time?

Does anyone in the hearing room know of the whereabouts of Mr.
Powell, John W. Powell?
If not, Mr. Counsel, will you call your next witness?
Mr. CARPExTER. Mrs. Sylvia Powell.
Senator WELKER. Will you stand and be sworn, please. Do you
solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mkrs. POWELL. I do.
TESTIMONY OF SYLVIA CAMPBELL POWELL, SAN FRANCISCO,
CALIF. (ACCOMPANIED BY ATTORNEY DORIS BRIN WALKER)
Senator WE LKER. Will you state your name, please?
Mrs. POWELL. Sylvia Campbell Powell.
Senator WELKER. Where do you reside?
Mrs. POWELL. 1015 Carolina Street, San Francisco.
Senator WELKER. In San Francisco, Calif.?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Senator WELKER. Are you a married woman?

Mrs. PowErL,. I am married.
Senator WELKER. And do you have issue of that marriage, children?
Mrs. PowELL. I have two children.
Senator WELKER. Their ages, I think, are 5 and 9.
Mrs. POWELL. Five and three.
Senator WELKER. Five and three, I beg your pardon.

Where were you born, Mrs. Powell?
Mrs. POWELL. I was born in Pendleton, Oreg.
Senator WELKER. Now you may proceed, counsel.
Mr. CARPENTER. When were you Dorn, Mrs. Powell?
Mrs. POWELL. November 15, 1920.
Mr. CARPENTER. Will you tell the committee your educational background, please?
Mrs. POWELL. I was educated in the public schools of Portland,
Oreg., and Milwaukie, Oreg.
Mr. CARPENTER. What year or years?
Mrs. POWELL. During the thirties, I assume.
Mr. CARPENTER. What college did you attend?
Mrs. POWELL. I attended Reed College in Portland, Oreg.
Mr. CARPENTER. When did you graduate?
Mrs. POWELL. I graduated 'in 1943.
Mr. CARPENTER. With what degree?
Mrs. POWELL. With a B. A. degree.
Mr. CARPENTER. After leaving college, did you go to work?
Mrs. POWELL. I worked for 1 year for the International Wood
Workers of America, in Portland Oreg.
Mr. CARPENTER. From there where did you goI
Mrs. POWELL. To Washington, D. C.
Mr. CARPENTER. For whom did you work in Washington, D. C.?
Mrs. POWELL. For the National Planning Board for a lew months;

for the Labor Research Bureau of the Midwest for a few months.

INTERLOCKING SUBVERSION IN
Mr. CARPENTER.

GOVERNMENT

2163

Then where did you go?

Mrs. POWELL. Then I worked in Washington, D. C., for the United

Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration.
Mr. CARPENTER. What year was that?
Mrs. POWELL. 1945.
Mr. CARPENTER. How lona did you work for the United Nations
Relief and Rehabilitation Administration in Washington, D. C.I
Mrs. POWELL. For just a few months.
Senator WELIKER. Counsel, may I interrupt you?
Would counsel for the witness please identify herself ? Give your
name and address, please.
Mrs. WALKER. My name is Doris Brin Walker, attorney at law,
345 Franklin Street, San Francisco.
Senator WELKER. You are admitted to practice law in the State of

California?
Mrs. WALKER.

I am.

Senator WELKER. Any other jurisdiction?
Mrs. WALKER. I am admitted to practice before the Federal district court.
Senator WELKER. How long have you been so admitted to practice
law?
Mrs. WALKER. Although I am not a witness, Senator, I will answer
the question.
Senator WELKER. If you do not care to identify yourself, all right.
We will strike the question.
Mrs. WALKER. I was admitted on DecemberSenator WELKER. All right. We will not have you say if you do not
want to.
Mr. CARPENTER. How long did you work for UNRRA in Wash-

ington, D. C.?
Mrs. POWELL. For just a few months.
Mr. CARPENTER. Then where did you go?
Mrs. PowELL. I went to China for UNRRA.
Mr. CARPENTER. Where were you stationed in China?
Mrs. POWELL. I was stationed in Shanghai.
Mr. CARPENTER. Who was your immediate superior in UNRRA in
Shanghai?
Mrs. POWELL. I had several jobs in UNRRA. I was the adminis.
trative assistant to the administrative officer of UNRRA. I was in
the public-relations office of UNRRA. I was secretary to the head
of CNRRA,' which is the Chinese counterpart of UNRRA.
Mr. CARPENTER. Was that an organ of the Chinese Government,
CNRRA?
Mrs. POWELL. I would assume that the funds would have come
from the Chinese Nationalist Government, but I was an employee of
UNRRA.
Mr. CARPENTER. Who was your immediate superior while you were
with CNRRA?
Mrs. POWELL. I was secretary to John Ting-Fu, T. F. John.,
Mr. CARPE NTER. How long did you work for CNRRAI

IChina Natlonal Relief and Rehabilitatlon Administration.
Ting-fu
China
to theTslang,
U. N. former CNRRA official, is now permanent representative of Nationalist

2164

INTERLOCKING SUBVERSION IN GOVERNMENT

Mrs. PowELL. For just a short while, perhaps several weeks.
Mr. CkwkN=. :Where did ou go from CNRRA I
Mrs. PowmLL. Gentlemen, would like very much, in view of the
fact that I have an honorable Senator hereSenator WEIKE.

Mrs.

Will you answer the question, pleaseI

PowEL. I would like to answer the question, Senator.
Senator WLR, Please answer the question and then, if you desire
to explain, I will be happy to have you explain.
Mrs. Powrm. I would like the opportunity of telling you, Senator,
and you'gentemen, of the experiences I have had in China because
I think that they have given me some insight there. I must say, Senator; that in view of the way this hearing has been presented, the
publicity that has preceded the hearing, the threats that have been
given to other people who have appeared before hearings by this same
subcommittee, I feel that I cannot answer your questions on the ground
of the first amendment, which gives me freedom of association.
I also take my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment
for fear that anything I might say might be used in future criminal
trials against me.
Senator WFuinR. In other words, you take as your objection the
first and fifth amendments of the Constitution of the United States?
Mrs. PowFzU. I am using my constitutional privileges; that is
correct.
Senator WELKER. The first and fifth amendments?
Mrs. POWELL. Both the first and the fifth amendments.
Senator WE.LKER. I will advise you and your counselor that the committee recognizes the fifth amendment only. We do not recognize the
first amendment. Your refusal to answer under the fifth amendment
will be recognized.
Proceed, counsel.
Mr. CARPENTER. Were you on the editorial staff of the. China Review-the China Weekly Review, and later the China Monthly Review,
published in Shanghai, China?
Mrs. POWELL. Gentlemen, I think we are in the realm of freedom
of the press, which I feel I have the right, under the first amendment,
to refuse to answer this question. Since you have ruled you do not
recognize that, I will take my constitutional privilege in the fifth
amendment.
Senator WELKER.

Madam witness, now you feel we are invading the

freedom of the press to ask you a very simple question, whether or not
you are a writer or assistant editor or any part of the press, not only
of our great Nation but any other country, whether it be Communist
or anti-Communist? Is that your objection, that we are now invading
the freedom of the press by asking you now whether or not you were
assistant editor of any publication I We are not asking you, Madam,
what you wrote or anything of that sort at this time.
Mrs. POWELL. May I consult?
Senator WELKER. Yes, you may consult with your counsel.
(Witness consulting with counsel.)
Mrs. POWELL. Senator, I will stand on my previous answer.
Senator WELKER. What is that again?
Mrs. POWELL. That I take my privilege under the first amendment

and my constit-lional privilege under the fifth amendment.

INTERLOCKING SUBVERSION

IN GOVERNMENT

2165

Senator WELKER. Now, Counselor, I hope that you are advising the

client because we all want to save time. We have a number of witnesses. We are not going tj recognize the first amendment. I so
advise you, when she desires, to take the fifth amendment. Let us
limit it to that, please. If you want it so, I will stipulate that she
includes, in her refusal to answer, the first and fifth amendments of
the Constitution with the further stipulation that the committee
recognizes only the fifth amendment.
Mrs. WALKER. The question of the application of the first amend-

ment to various witnesses is presently before the United States
Supreme Court, Senator.
Senator WEILKER. I did not ask you for any legal opinion, Coun-

selor; I was merely trying to expedite the hearing. You know our
rulings. We have never recognized the first amendment. We do
recognize the fifth amendment. It will save time if you do not put
the objection upon the grounds of the first amendment. I could not
be any fairer than that because I am stipulating that the objection go
into the record, but we do not recognize it. Do you understand,
Counselor I
Mrs. WALKER. I wish to cooperate with you in every way, Senator,

in expediting the hearing.
Senator WELKER. I am sure you do.
Mrs. WALKER. But I feel in advising my client I must advise her

completely and not partially.
Senator WELKER. Let me say to' you that you are here as a guest of

the committee. You are not to advise your client until she seeks advice
from you. We shall be happy to permit her to ask your advice at any
time. We are glad to have you here, Mrs. Walker.
We will proceed, Counsel.
Mr. CARPENTER. You were sometimes known as Sylvia Campbell; is
that right?
Mrs. PowELL. That is my maiden name, Sylvia Campbell.
Mr. CARPENTER. Have you done any writing under the name of
Sylvia Campbell?
Mrs. POWELL. Gentlemen, I again use the first amendment and my

constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Senator WELKER. V'ay I interrupt you, Counselor, again?
In my statement made heretofore I probably did not make myself
as clear as I should have that this committee does not recognize the
first amendment as a basis for refusing to answer. Naturally, all
Americans recognize the first amendment and all the amendments to
our great Constitution. Once again let me say that the committee does
not recognize the first amendment as a basis for refusing to answer
any question propounded to you.
You "may proceed, Counsel.
Mr. CARPENTER.

Mr. Chairman, at this time I would like to intro-

duce into the record, to be made a part of the record, the flyleaf of a
magazine I hold in my hand entitled "China Monthly Reyiew."
May it go into the record and be made a part of the record?
Senator WELKER. It is dated January 19, 1953. It may be made a

part of the record.
(The material referred to above was marked "Exhibit No. 510" and
appears on following page.)

I

I


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