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Kim Black pt3 .pdf


Original filename: Kim Black pt3.pdf
Title: KM_C308-20161111153525

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89

1

Q

AND YOU DID NOT COPY THEM YOURSELF --

2

A

NO.

3

Q

-- OR MAKE A XEROX COPY OF ANY PAGES?

4

A

NO.

5

Q

DID ANYONE AT THE OFFICE XEROX AND PROVIDE TO

6

YOU, AT ANY TIME, WHETHER IN THE DAY YOU DELIVERED THEM OR

7

ANYTIME THEREAFTER, A COPY OF ANY PART OF THOSE NOTES?

8

A

NO, I GOT A COPY OF THE ...

9

Q

DECLARATION?

10

A

DECLARATION.

11

Q

OTHER THAN THE DECLARATION, DID YOU EVER

12

RECEIVE BACK ANY COPY OF YOUR HANDWRITTEN NOTES?

13

A

NO.

14

Q

DID MR. ZAHARIAS EVER TELL YOU THAT HE HAS A

15

COPY OF ANY PART OF YOUR HANDWRITTEN NOTES?

16

A

NO.

17

Q

HAVE YOU EVER ASKED HIM IF HE HAD?

18

A

NO -- EXCUSE ME.

YES.

SHE HAD REQUESTED

19

FROM ME IF I COULD GET THE HANDWRITTEN NOTES, AND I DID

20

NOT HAVE THEM.

21

COMING, IF I HAD TALKED TO BARBARA AND SEE IF I WAS COI1ING

22

DOWN HERE FOR THE SUBPOENA, WHETHER OR NOT

23

NOT YOU HAD DECIDED TO LET ME COME OR NOT, I ASKED HIM IF

24

HE HAD -- IF HIS

25

THIS DECLARATION I PREPARED BECAUSE SHE WANTED A COPY OF

3

WHEN LOUIS PHONED ME TO SEE IF I WAS

~.TTORNEY

WHETHER OR

HAD MY HANDWRITTEN NOTES AND

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

90

1

IT.

AND THAT WAS IT.

2

ATTORNEY AND GET IT STRAIGHT FROM HER.
Q

3

HE WAS GOING TO CHECK WITH HIS

DID HE EVER -- "HE" MEANING LOUIS ZAHARIAS

4

EVER GET BACK TO YOU OR YOU BACK TO HIM WHERE THERE WAS

5

ANY SUBSEQUENT DISCUSSION OF WHETHER THOSE NOTES WERE

6

AVAILABLE AT ALL IN ANY FORM?
A

7
8

HE WAS GOING TO HANDLE IT, TELL HIS

ATTORNEY AND HAVE HIS ATTORNEY CALL BARBARA.
Q

9

10

NO.

LAST TIME YOU SAW THE NOTES THEY WERE IN THE

ATTORNEY'S OFFICE?

11

A

YES.

12

Q

DO YOU RECALL WHO YOU GAVE THEM TO,

13

PHYSICALLY GAVE THEM TO?

14

A

THE ATTORNEY.

15

Q

DID YOU WRITE OUT ANY OF THESE NOTES WHILE

16

YOU WERE IN THE OFFICE?

17

A

NO.

18

Q

WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF YOU GOING TO THE

20

A

TO GIVE THE DECLARATION.

21

Q

PRIOR TO YOU GOING TO THE OFFICE WAS THE

19

22

OFFICE?

DECLARATION PREPARED?

23

A

NO.

24

Q

YOU DIDN'T HAVE A COPY OF IT UNTIL YOU GOT

25

THERE?

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

91

,....

1

A

RIGHT.

2

Q

SO THE FIRST TIME YOU GOT THERE IS WHEN YOU

3

SAW THE DECLARATION, CORRECT?
NO.

A

4

I WENT INTO THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WITH

5

MY NOTES.

6

THIS, THE DECLARATION, AND THEN NOT -- I DON'T KNOW HO\v

7

LONG IT WAS AFTER I LEFT THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, A WEEK OR

8

SO, I GOT A COPY OF THE DECLARATION.

9

THE OFFICE.

10

WE WENT OVER THE NOTES.

FROM THE NOTES CAME

I HAD TO SIGN IT IN

IT WAS PREPARED AND I SIGNED IT BUT I DIDN'T

GET THE COPY.
Q

11

YOU WENT TO THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND YOU

12

BROUGHT WITH YOU YOUR NOTES, YOU THEN WENT OVER THE NOTES

13

WITH THE ATTORNEY, A DECLARATION WAS PREPARED WHILE YOU

14

W.ERE

15

THEN SOMETIME LATER YOU RECEIVED A COPY OF THE

16

DECLARATION, CORRECT?

':~;'HERE,

AND YOU SIGNED IT WHILE YOU WERE THERE, AND

17

A

CORRECT.

18.

Q

WHO WAS PRESENT DURING THE DISCUSSION THAT

19

YOU HAD WITH THE ATTORNEY RELATING TO YOUR NOTES, OTHER

20

THAN YOURSELF AND THE ATTORNEY, IF ANYONE?

21

A

LOUIS.

22

Q

HOW LONG WERE YOU THERE?

23

A

TWO HOURS.

THAT'S A GUESS .

IT WAS

24

APPROXIMATELY TWO TO THREE HOURS, SOMEWHERE IN THAT TIME

25

SPAN.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

92

Q

1
~

DID YOU TALK WITH ANYONE ELSE ABOUT THE

2

EVENTS WHILE YOU WERE THERE, OTHER THAN LOUIS AND THE

3

ATTORNEY?

4

A

NO.

5

Q

NOW THE DECLARATION HAS A DATE ON IT OF

6

AUGUST 15, 1988 .

7

IT?

WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN THE DATE YOU SIGNED

8

A

YES, IT WAS IN THE SUMMERTIME.

9

Q

AGAIN, LET ME SHOW THE COPY TO YOU, THE

10

THREE-PAGE COPY.

11

YOU SIGNED ON AUGUST 15, 1988?

THAT IS THE DECLARATION, CORRECT, THAT

12

A

CORRECT.

13

Q

THAT WAS WHAT WAS COMPILED OUT OF YOUR NOTES,

14

CORRECT?

15

A

16

MR. HANLEY:

17

CORRECT.
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS MARKED FOR

IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES IN THIS DEPOSITION AS EXHIBIT 1.

18

(DEFENDANTS' EXHIBIT 1 WAS MARKED FOR

19

IDENTIFICATION BY THE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND

20

REPORTER AND IS ATTACHED HERETO . )

21

MR. HANLEY:

22

MR. PLATT:

23
24
25

CAN WE TAKE A SHORT BREAK?
SURE.

{DISCUSSION OF F THE RECORD)

..

BY MR. HANLEY:
Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN EITHER BY TELEPHONE OR

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

-,....

93

1

FACE TO FACE TO SUSAN ZAHARIAS' GRANDPARENTS?

2

A

NO.

3

Q

DO YOU KNOW THEIR NAME AS YOU SIT HERE?

4

A

NO.

5

Q

IF I MENTION TO YOU THE NAME OF

6

LOUIS HETTINGER, WOULD THAT NAME MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?
A

8
9

Q

DOES THE NAME ROBERT HETTINGER MEAN ANYTHING

TO YOU?
A

11

Q

NEVER HEARD OF THE NAME BEFORE?

12

A

NEVER.

13

Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO ANYONE THAT YOU

14

UNDERSTOOD TO BE SUSAN'S BROTHER?

15

A

NO.

16

Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO ANYONE THAT YOU

17

UNDERSTOOD TO BE SUSAN'S BROTHER-IN-LAW?

18

A

NO.

19

Q

YOU SAID YOU SPOKE TO JULIANNA?

20

A

YES.

21

Q

DID YOU EVER SPEAK TO JULIANNA'S HUSBAND,

22

ASSUMING SHE HAD A HUSBAND?

23

A

NO.

24

Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO SUSAN'S PARENTS?

25

A

NO.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, IN C.

94

1

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET SUSAN'S PARENTS?

2

A

NO.

3

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET JULIANNA?

4

A

NO.

5

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET JULIANNA'S HUSBAND?

6

A

NO.

7

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET SHIRLEY CANN, TO YOUR

8

KNOWLEDGE?

9

A

NO.

10

Q

DID YOU CONSIDER SUSAN A CLOSE FRIEND OF

12

A

YES.

13

Q

A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND?

14

A

YES.

15

Q

WAS IT YOUR BELIEF THAT SUSAN WAS YOUR

11

16

YOURS?

CLOSEST FRIEND AT THAT TIME?

17

A

YES.

18

Q

AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR A PERIOD OF

19

APPROXIMATELY ONE YEAR, SAY, BEFORE SHE LEFT?

20

A

ONE YEAR THAT WE WERE REALLY CLOSE, YES.

21

Q

SO LET'S SAY APPROXIMATELY FROM THE PERIOD Of

22

WHEN, NOVEMBER OF '86 UNTIL NOVEMBER OF '87, AT LEAST

23

DURING THAT PERIOD YOU TWO WERE THE CLOSEST FRIENDS?

24

A

EXACTLY, YES.

25

Q

YOU WOULD SEE HER ALMOST DAILY?

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

95

1

A

YES.

2

Q

AND WHEN YOU SAW HER, ON MOST INSTANCES IT

3

WAS AT THE VIDEO STORE? .

4

A

YES.

5

Q

WOULD SHE EVER COME WITH ANYONE ELSE OTHER

6

THAN THE CHILDREN?

7

A

NO .

8

Q

DO YOU KNOW SHERRY CLARK?

9

A

I KNOW A SHERRY.

10

Q

YOU KNOW A SHERRY?

11

A

I DON'T KNOW IF HER LAST NAME IS CLARK.

12

Q

DID YOU EVER MEET A SHERRY vlHILE YOU WERE

13

LIVING IN MISSION VIEJO?

14

A

YES.

15

Q

HOW MANY OCCASIONS DID YOU EVER SEE SHERRY?

16

A

FIVE OR SIX.

17

Q

AND WERE ANY OF THOSE OCCASIONS WHEN SUSAN

18

WAS PRESENT?

19

A

NO.

20

Q

WHERE DID YOU MEET SHERRY?

21

A

RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX WHERE

22

SUSAN AND LOUIS RESIDED, NOT A DRIVEWAY , BUT YOU KNO\v HO\v

23

THE ROADS ARE IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX.

24

HERE.

25

THE DRIVEWAY BY WHERE THE GARAGES ARE IS WHERE I FIRST MET

SUSAN LI VED RIGHT HERE.

SHERRY LIVED RIGHT

(INDICATING)

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

SO OUT IN

96

1

SHERRY.

2

3

Q

YOU UNDERSTOOD SHERRY TO LIVE IN THE SAME

APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT SUSAN LIVED IN?

4

A

EXACTLY.

5

Q

DID YOU EVER LIVE IN THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX?

6

A

NO.

7

Q

HOW FAR AWAY DID YOU LIVE FROM THE APARTHENT

8

COMPLEX; CAN YOU GIVE ME AN ESTIMATE IN TERMS OF MILES OR

9

MINUTES?

10

A

TEN MINUTES.

11

Q

TEN MINUTES BY CAR?

12

A

TEN MINUTES MAXIMUM BY CAR.

13

Q

WAS SHERRY CLARK EVER PRESENT AT ANY TIME

14

WHEN YOU OBSERVED SUSAN TO USE ANY DRUG?

NOT SHERRY

15

CLARK, BUT JUST THE GIRL YOU KNEW BY THE NAME OF SHERRY ,

16

WHATEVER HER LAST NN1E WAS, WAS SHE EVER PRESENT AT ANY

17

TIME THAT YOU CAN RECALL WHEN YOU SAW SUSAN USING ANY

18

DRUGS?

19

A

NO.

20

Q

DID SUSAN EVER MENTION SHERRY IN CONNECTION

21

WITH ANY OF HER DRUG USE?

22

A

YES.

23

Q

WHAT DID SHE SAY?

24

A

THAT SHE WAS GOING THROUGH SHERRY TO GET HER

,,

25

DRUGS.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

97

-

1

Q

ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU RECALL THAT SHE SAID?

2

A

JUST THAT SHE OWED HER MONEY.

AT DIFFERENT

3

PERIODS OF TIME SHE WAS -- SHERRY HAD LOANED HER MONEY TO

4

GET HER DRUGS, GO ON CREDIT, WHICHEVER WAY, AND THAT SHE

5

HAD OWED HER MONEY AND THAT SHE WOULDN ' T ANSWER.

6

WOULD CALL HER EARLY IN THE MORNING AND SHE WOULDN 'T

7

ANSWER THE PHONE, AND SUSAN WOULD CALL ME ALL UPSET

8

BECAUSE SHE WOULD lvANT ME TO CALL SHERRY AND SEE IF I

9

COULD GET HER UP SO SUSAN COULD TALK TO HER AND WORK ON

10

SUSAN

SOME KIND OF DRUG DEAL AT THAT POINT.

11

Q

DID YOU DO THAT FOR HER?

12

A

NO.

13

Q

DID YOU EVER MAKE A PHONE CALL TO SHERRY FOR

15

A

NO.

16

Q

HAVE YOU HEARD THE NAME NORMA JEAN GAMMILL

18

A

NO .

19

Q

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE NAME JAY GAMMILL

14

17

20

HER?

BEFORE?

BEFORE TODAY?

21

A

NO.

22

Q

NOW I RECALL -- I THINK YOU SAID EARLIER IN

23

YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY THAT THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU OBSERVED

24

SUSAN USING DRUGS WAS JUST PRIOR TO THE BIRTH OF LISA; IS

25

THAT CORRECT?

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.


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