Kim Black pt3 (PDF)

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1

Q

AND YOU DID NOT COPY THEM YOURSELF --

2

A

NO.

3

Q

-- OR MAKE A XEROX COPY OF ANY PAGES?

4

A

NO.

5

Q

DID ANYONE AT THE OFFICE XEROX AND PROVIDE TO

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YOU, AT ANY TIME, WHETHER IN THE DAY YOU DELIVERED THEM OR

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ANYTIME THEREAFTER, A COPY OF ANY PART OF THOSE NOTES?

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A

NO, I GOT A COPY OF THE ...

9

Q

DECLARATION?

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A

DECLARATION.

11

Q

OTHER THAN THE DECLARATION, DID YOU EVER

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RECEIVE BACK ANY COPY OF YOUR HANDWRITTEN NOTES?

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A

NO.

14

Q

DID MR. ZAHARIAS EVER TELL YOU THAT HE HAS A

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COPY OF ANY PART OF YOUR HANDWRITTEN NOTES?

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A

NO.

17

Q

HAVE YOU EVER ASKED HIM IF HE HAD?

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A

NO -- EXCUSE ME.

YES.

SHE HAD REQUESTED

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FROM ME IF I COULD GET THE HANDWRITTEN NOTES, AND I DID

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NOT HAVE THEM.

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COMING, IF I HAD TALKED TO BARBARA AND SEE IF I WAS COI1ING

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DOWN HERE FOR THE SUBPOENA, WHETHER OR NOT

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NOT YOU HAD DECIDED TO LET ME COME OR NOT, I ASKED HIM IF

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HE HAD -- IF HIS

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THIS DECLARATION I PREPARED BECAUSE SHE WANTED A COPY OF

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WHEN LOUIS PHONED ME TO SEE IF I WAS

~.TTORNEY

WHETHER OR

HAD MY HANDWRITTEN NOTES AND

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

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IT.

AND THAT WAS IT.

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ATTORNEY AND GET IT STRAIGHT FROM HER.
Q

3

HE WAS GOING TO CHECK WITH HIS

DID HE EVER -- "HE" MEANING LOUIS ZAHARIAS

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EVER GET BACK TO YOU OR YOU BACK TO HIM WHERE THERE WAS

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ANY SUBSEQUENT DISCUSSION OF WHETHER THOSE NOTES WERE

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AVAILABLE AT ALL IN ANY FORM?
A

7
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HE WAS GOING TO HANDLE IT, TELL HIS

ATTORNEY AND HAVE HIS ATTORNEY CALL BARBARA.
Q

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10

NO.

LAST TIME YOU SAW THE NOTES THEY WERE IN THE

ATTORNEY'S OFFICE?

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A

YES.

12

Q

DO YOU RECALL WHO YOU GAVE THEM TO,

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PHYSICALLY GAVE THEM TO?

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A

THE ATTORNEY.

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Q

DID YOU WRITE OUT ANY OF THESE NOTES WHILE

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YOU WERE IN THE OFFICE?

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A

NO.

18

Q

WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF YOU GOING TO THE

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A

TO GIVE THE DECLARATION.

21

Q

PRIOR TO YOU GOING TO THE OFFICE WAS THE

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OFFICE?

DECLARATION PREPARED?

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A

NO.

24

Q

YOU DIDN'T HAVE A COPY OF IT UNTIL YOU GOT

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THERE?

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

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,....

1

A

RIGHT.

2

Q

SO THE FIRST TIME YOU GOT THERE IS WHEN YOU

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SAW THE DECLARATION, CORRECT?
NO.

A

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I WENT INTO THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WITH

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MY NOTES.

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THIS, THE DECLARATION, AND THEN NOT -- I DON'T KNOW HO\v

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LONG IT WAS AFTER I LEFT THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, A WEEK OR

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SO, I GOT A COPY OF THE DECLARATION.

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THE OFFICE.

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WE WENT OVER THE NOTES.

FROM THE NOTES CAME

I HAD TO SIGN IT IN

IT WAS PREPARED AND I SIGNED IT BUT I DIDN'T

GET THE COPY.
Q

11

YOU WENT TO THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND YOU

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BROUGHT WITH YOU YOUR NOTES, YOU THEN WENT OVER THE NOTES

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WITH THE ATTORNEY, A DECLARATION WAS PREPARED WHILE YOU

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W.ERE

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THEN SOMETIME LATER YOU RECEIVED A COPY OF THE

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DECLARATION, CORRECT?

':~;'HERE,

AND YOU SIGNED IT WHILE YOU WERE THERE, AND

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A

CORRECT.

18.

Q

WHO WAS PRESENT DURING THE DISCUSSION THAT

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YOU HAD WITH THE ATTORNEY RELATING TO YOUR NOTES, OTHER

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THAN YOURSELF AND THE ATTORNEY, IF ANYONE?

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A

LOUIS.

22

Q

HOW LONG WERE YOU THERE?

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A

TWO HOURS.

THAT'S A GUESS .

IT WAS

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APPROXIMATELY TWO TO THREE HOURS, SOMEWHERE IN THAT TIME

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SPAN.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

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Q

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~

DID YOU TALK WITH ANYONE ELSE ABOUT THE

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EVENTS WHILE YOU WERE THERE, OTHER THAN LOUIS AND THE

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ATTORNEY?

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A

NO.

5

Q

NOW THE DECLARATION HAS A DATE ON IT OF

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AUGUST 15, 1988 .

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IT?

WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN THE DATE YOU SIGNED

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A

YES, IT WAS IN THE SUMMERTIME.

9

Q

AGAIN, LET ME SHOW THE COPY TO YOU, THE

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THREE-PAGE COPY.

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YOU SIGNED ON AUGUST 15, 1988?

THAT IS THE DECLARATION, CORRECT, THAT

12

A

CORRECT.

13

Q

THAT WAS WHAT WAS COMPILED OUT OF YOUR NOTES,

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CORRECT?

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A

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MR. HANLEY:

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CORRECT.
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS MARKED FOR

IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES IN THIS DEPOSITION AS EXHIBIT 1.

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(DEFENDANTS' EXHIBIT 1 WAS MARKED FOR

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IDENTIFICATION BY THE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND

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REPORTER AND IS ATTACHED HERETO . )

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MR. HANLEY:

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MR. PLATT:

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CAN WE TAKE A SHORT BREAK?
SURE.

{DISCUSSION OF F THE RECORD)

..

BY MR. HANLEY:
Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN EITHER BY TELEPHONE OR

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

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1

FACE TO FACE TO SUSAN ZAHARIAS' GRANDPARENTS?

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A

NO.

3

Q

DO YOU KNOW THEIR NAME AS YOU SIT HERE?

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A

NO.

5

Q

IF I MENTION TO YOU THE NAME OF

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LOUIS HETTINGER, WOULD THAT NAME MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?
A

8
9

Q

DOES THE NAME ROBERT HETTINGER MEAN ANYTHING

TO YOU?
A

11

Q

NEVER HEARD OF THE NAME BEFORE?

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A

NEVER.

13

Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO ANYONE THAT YOU

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UNDERSTOOD TO BE SUSAN'S BROTHER?

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A

NO.

16

Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO ANYONE THAT YOU

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UNDERSTOOD TO BE SUSAN'S BROTHER-IN-LAW?

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A

NO.

19

Q

YOU SAID YOU SPOKE TO JULIANNA?

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A

YES.

21

Q

DID YOU EVER SPEAK TO JULIANNA'S HUSBAND,

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ASSUMING SHE HAD A HUSBAND?

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A

NO.

24

Q

HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO SUSAN'S PARENTS?

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A

NO.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, IN C.

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1

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET SUSAN'S PARENTS?

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A

NO.

3

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET JULIANNA?

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A

NO.

5

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET JULIANNA'S HUSBAND?

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A

NO.

7

Q

HAVE YOU EVER MET SHIRLEY CANN, TO YOUR

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KNOWLEDGE?

9

A

NO.

10

Q

DID YOU CONSIDER SUSAN A CLOSE FRIEND OF

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A

YES.

13

Q

A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND?

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A

YES.

15

Q

WAS IT YOUR BELIEF THAT SUSAN WAS YOUR

11

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YOURS?

CLOSEST FRIEND AT THAT TIME?

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A

YES.

18

Q

AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR A PERIOD OF

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APPROXIMATELY ONE YEAR, SAY, BEFORE SHE LEFT?

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A

ONE YEAR THAT WE WERE REALLY CLOSE, YES.

21

Q

SO LET'S SAY APPROXIMATELY FROM THE PERIOD Of

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WHEN, NOVEMBER OF '86 UNTIL NOVEMBER OF '87, AT LEAST

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DURING THAT PERIOD YOU TWO WERE THE CLOSEST FRIENDS?

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A

EXACTLY, YES.

25

Q

YOU WOULD SEE HER ALMOST DAILY?

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

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1

A

YES.

2

Q

AND WHEN YOU SAW HER, ON MOST INSTANCES IT

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WAS AT THE VIDEO STORE? .

4

A

YES.

5

Q

WOULD SHE EVER COME WITH ANYONE ELSE OTHER

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THAN THE CHILDREN?

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A

NO .

8

Q

DO YOU KNOW SHERRY CLARK?

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A

I KNOW A SHERRY.

10

Q

YOU KNOW A SHERRY?

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A

I DON'T KNOW IF HER LAST NAME IS CLARK.

12

Q

DID YOU EVER MEET A SHERRY vlHILE YOU WERE

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LIVING IN MISSION VIEJO?

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A

YES.

15

Q

HOW MANY OCCASIONS DID YOU EVER SEE SHERRY?

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A

FIVE OR SIX.

17

Q

AND WERE ANY OF THOSE OCCASIONS WHEN SUSAN

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WAS PRESENT?

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A

NO.

20

Q

WHERE DID YOU MEET SHERRY?

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A

RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEX WHERE

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SUSAN AND LOUIS RESIDED, NOT A DRIVEWAY , BUT YOU KNO\v HO\v

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THE ROADS ARE IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX.

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HERE.

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THE DRIVEWAY BY WHERE THE GARAGES ARE IS WHERE I FIRST MET

SUSAN LI VED RIGHT HERE.

SHERRY LIVED RIGHT

(INDICATING)

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

SO OUT IN

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SHERRY.

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3

Q

YOU UNDERSTOOD SHERRY TO LIVE IN THE SAME

APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT SUSAN LIVED IN?

4

A

EXACTLY.

5

Q

DID YOU EVER LIVE IN THAT APARTMENT COMPLEX?

6

A

NO.

7

Q

HOW FAR AWAY DID YOU LIVE FROM THE APARTHENT

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COMPLEX; CAN YOU GIVE ME AN ESTIMATE IN TERMS OF MILES OR

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MINUTES?

10

A

TEN MINUTES.

11

Q

TEN MINUTES BY CAR?

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A

TEN MINUTES MAXIMUM BY CAR.

13

Q

WAS SHERRY CLARK EVER PRESENT AT ANY TIME

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WHEN YOU OBSERVED SUSAN TO USE ANY DRUG?

NOT SHERRY

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CLARK, BUT JUST THE GIRL YOU KNEW BY THE NAME OF SHERRY ,

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WHATEVER HER LAST NN1E WAS, WAS SHE EVER PRESENT AT ANY

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TIME THAT YOU CAN RECALL WHEN YOU SAW SUSAN USING ANY

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DRUGS?

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A

NO.

20

Q

DID SUSAN EVER MENTION SHERRY IN CONNECTION

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WITH ANY OF HER DRUG USE?

22

A

YES.

23

Q

WHAT DID SHE SAY?

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A

THAT SHE WAS GOING THROUGH SHERRY TO GET HER

,,

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DRUGS.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

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-

1

Q

ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU RECALL THAT SHE SAID?

2

A

JUST THAT SHE OWED HER MONEY.

AT DIFFERENT

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PERIODS OF TIME SHE WAS -- SHERRY HAD LOANED HER MONEY TO

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GET HER DRUGS, GO ON CREDIT, WHICHEVER WAY, AND THAT SHE

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HAD OWED HER MONEY AND THAT SHE WOULDN ' T ANSWER.

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WOULD CALL HER EARLY IN THE MORNING AND SHE WOULDN 'T

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ANSWER THE PHONE, AND SUSAN WOULD CALL ME ALL UPSET

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BECAUSE SHE WOULD lvANT ME TO CALL SHERRY AND SEE IF I

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COULD GET HER UP SO SUSAN COULD TALK TO HER AND WORK ON

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SUSAN

SOME KIND OF DRUG DEAL AT THAT POINT.

11

Q

DID YOU DO THAT FOR HER?

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A

NO.

13

Q

DID YOU EVER MAKE A PHONE CALL TO SHERRY FOR

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A

NO.

16

Q

HAVE YOU HEARD THE NAME NORMA JEAN GAMMILL

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A

NO .

19

Q

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE NAME JAY GAMMILL

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17

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HER?

BEFORE?

BEFORE TODAY?

21

A

NO.

22

Q

NOW I RECALL -- I THINK YOU SAID EARLIER IN

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YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY THAT THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU OBSERVED

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SUSAN USING DRUGS WAS JUST PRIOR TO THE BIRTH OF LISA; IS

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THAT CORRECT?

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.