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Kim Black pt4 .pdf


Original filename: Kim Black pt4.pdf
Title: KM_C308-20161111153646

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137

.,......

1

FORMAL NAME.
Q

2

LET'S TAKE THAT ON E STEP FURTHER.

WITH HER

3

PARENTS WOULD SHE CALL THEM SOMETHING OTHER THAN "MY

4

PARENTS," WOULD SHE CALL THEM "MOTHER," "FATHER," "MOHAND

5

DAD"?

6

A

NO, HER PARENTS.

7

Q

USUALLY SHE REFERRED TO THEM AS HER PARENTS?

8

A

HER PARENTS.

9

Q

AND YOU DON'T RECALL WHETHER SHE EVER

10

MENTIONED WHAT THEIR NAMES WERE, CORRECT?

11

A

CORRECT .

12

Q

DID YOU KNOW WHAT HER MAIDEN NAME WAS BY .'\NY

14

A

NO.

15

Q

THAT WAS NEVER DISCUSSED --

16

A

NO.

17

Q

-- AS BEST YOU CAN RECALL?

18

A

NO, THAT I CAN RECALL.

19

Q

THE PERIOD OF A MONTH BEFORE SHE DEPARTED, I

13

CHANCE?

20

THINK YOU SAID YOU COULD SEE THAT SHE WAS SHORT-TEMPERED

21

TOWARDS THE CHILDREN; IS THAT CORRECT?

22

A

CORRECT.

23

Q

AND HO\<l DID THAT MANIFEST ITSELF OR MAKE IT

24

APPARENT TO YOU THAT SHE WAS SHORT-TEMPERED?

25

ME ANY EXAMPLES?

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

CAN YOU GIVE

138

1

A

SHE WOULD -- CHRISTOPHER USED TO PLAY WITH

2

DINOSAURS, AND SHE WOULD TAKE THE DINOSAUR AWAY FROM HIM

3

AND YELL AT HIM IF HE WOULDN'T SIT DOWN.

4

TELEVISION IN THE VIDEO STORE AND THINGS, AND SHE WOULD

5

LITERALLY JUST SCREAM AT HIM TO "SIT DOWN," TO "WATCH

6

T.V.," "DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING," "DON'T MOVE ABOUT."

7

WOULD TAKE THE DINOSAUR AWAY FROM HIM, AND IF THAT

8

WOULDN'T HELP OUT, TO THE CAR HE HAD TO GO AND SIT.

WE HAD A SCREEN

SHE

9

Q

BY HIMSELF?

10

A

BY HIMSELF.

11

Q

AND WHAT WOULD HIS REACTION BE WHEN HE WOULD

12

DO THAT; WOULD HE CRY?

13

A

NO, HE \vOULD NOT CRY.

HE WOULD NOT THROW A

14

FIT.

15

EYE AND SAY, "I HATE YOU; I HATE YOU," AND . TURN AROUND AND

16

WALK OUT TO THE CAR.

17
18
19

HE WOULD TURN AROUND AND LOOK AT HER SQUARE IN THE

Q

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT OCCURRED OVER AND

A

OVER AND OVER , NEVER ANY SCREAMING LIKE A

OVER?

20

TWO- OR THREE-YEAR- OLD CHILD WOULD HAVE.

21

SLAMMING THE FIST BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GET HIS OWN WAY.

22

WAS JUST THIS

23

HIS EYES THAT HE HATED HER.

24

AND SHE NEVER PHYSICALLY TOUCHED HIM IN FRONT OF ME.

25

SCREAMING AND YELLING AND TAKING AWAY OF THE TOYS.

I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT.

NO TANTRUMS.

NO
IT

IT WAS THE LOOK IN

HE JUST PLAIN OUT HATED HER.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

JUST

139

. .......

1

Q

DID YOU EVER DISCUSS THAT ASPECT WITH HER?

2

A

YES.

AS FAR AS WHY HE ACTED THAT WAY TOWARDS

3

HER, WHY HE RESPONDED THAT WAY TO HER, AND SHE SAID THAT

4

THAT WAS JUST HER "PROBLEM CHILD" AND THAT HE JUST DID NOT

5

MIND HER.
AND WHEN I -- ON THE OCCASION THAT I BABY-SAT

6
7

FOR HER, THEY WERE FINE.

8

HEARING THAT SHE SAID CAUSED THIS PROBLEM, THAT HE WASN'T

9

HEARING THINGS CORRECTLY, THAT HE WAS JUST AN AGGRAVATED

10

BUT HE HAD A PROBLEM WITH HIS

CHILD.
Q

11

DID SHE EVER INDICATE TO YOU THAT SHE GAVE

12

HIM ANY KIND OF MEDICATION OR ANYTHING THAT SHE WOULD DO

13

TO -A

14

THEY HAD ENROLLED HIM IN THIS SPECIAL THERAPY

15

FOR HIM TO GO TO AFTER THEY FINALLY FOUND OUT WHAT

16

PROBLEM WAS, BUT SHE DIDN'T TAKE HIM.

17

VIDEO STORE OR I WAS ON THE PHONE TO HER .

18

MUCH OF A HASSLE TO DRIVE HIM OVER THERE .

SHE WAS AT THE
AND IT WAS TOO

INSTEAD, SHE WAS GOING TO GO UP TO HUNTINGTON

19

. 20

~HE

BEACH OR WHEREVER, AND THE FIRST THING ON HER MIND WAS TO

21

GET THE DRUGS FIRST.

22

SCHOOL.

S~E

DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO GO TO

23

Q

DID THAT SOUND LIKE A FEEBLE EXCUSE TO YOU?

24

A

YES, CONSIDERING THAT THEY HAD QUITE A FEW

25

PROBLEMS WITH HIM AND IT WAS A MAJOR DEAL ABOUT HIS

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

140

.

""'

1

HEARING AND HE COULD BE IMPAIRED IN HIS HEARING FOR LIFE .

2

THEY HAD A CHANCE TO CORRECT IT, AND SHE TOOK HIM THE

3

FIRST COUPLE OF TIMES AND THEN THAT WAS IT.

4

STOPPED .
Q

5
6

SHE JUST

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT SHE WAS TELLING

LOUIS ABOUT HER TAKING CHRISTOPHER?
A

7

NO.

SHE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO ME.

I'M SURE

8

THERE WAS NOTHING THAT HAD TO BE SAID BECAUSE LOUIS WAS AT

9

WORK DURING THE DAY, SO HE WOULD HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER

10

CHRISTOPHER WAS GOING OR NOT.
Q

11

12

TELL LOUIS ABOUT MOST OF HER ACTIVITIES LIKE THAT?
A

13
14

I KNOW MOST DEFINITELY ABOUT MANY OF THEH HE

WAS NOT INFORMED ABOUT.
Q

15

16

DID YOU GET THE . IMPRESSION THAT SHE DIDN'T

WHAT OTHER AREAS OF HER BEHAV.IOR OR CONDUCT

DID SHE KEEP FROM HIM THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF?
A

17

SHE HID THE BILLS FROM HIM.
SHE USED CRYSTAL METH.

SHE USED

18

COCAINE.

SHE SMOKED MORE DOPE

19

THAN HE KNEW ABOUT.

20

BASIS.

SHE HAD HER SECRET MAILBOX WHERE ALL HER MAIL HAS

21

GOING.

SHE WAS GETTING HER MONEY FROM HER PARENTS.

22

HAD HER SISTER IN TOWN WITHOUT TELLING HIM.

23

THREE-QUARTERS OF HER LIFE THAT HE HAD NO IDEA IT WAS EVEN

24

HAPPENING WHEN HE WAS GOING TO WORK FROM 9:00 TO 5:00.

14

25

Q

SHE SMOKED CIGARETTES ON A CONSTANT

SHE

I WOULD SAY

DID SHE SEEM TO ENJOY LIVING THAT TYPE OF

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

141

1
2

DUAL LIFE?
A

YES, WHEN SHE HAD -- ONCE IN THE MORNING WHEN

3

SHE COULD GET WITH THE DRUG CONNECTION AND HAVE HER DRUG,

4

SHE WAS FINE FOR THE REST OF THE DAY .

5

Q

YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER, I THINK, THAT HER MAIN

6

GOAL ON A DAILY BASIS WAS FIGURING OUT HOW SHE WAS GOING

7

TO GET MONEY OR GET DRUGS?

8

A

CORRECT .

9

Q

OR A COMBINATION OF THE TWO?

10

A

CORRECT .

11

Q

AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WENT ON FOR A

12

LENGTHY PERIOD OF TIME; I S THAT CORRECT?

13

A

CORRECT .

14

Q

OTHER THAN SHORT- TEMPERED, HOW WOULD YOU

15

DESCRIBE HER APPEARANCE TO YOU DURING THE, LET'S SAY,

16

THREE OR FOUR MONTHS BEFORE SHE DEPARTED?

17

A

SHE WENT DOWN TO ABOUT 98 POUNDS I N WEIGHT.

18

SHE LOOKED ANOREXIC.

19

SHE ALWAYS WORE MAKE - UP BEFORE.

20

MAKE-UP .

21

BLUE JEANS AND HER -- HER SAME BLUE JEANS, SAME SHIRT .

22

THE KIDS AT THE END WERE IN THE SAME CLOTHES .

23
24
25

Q

SHE NEVER --

SHE WENT TO WEARING NO

SHE NEVER CURLED HER HAIR ANYMORE.

SHE WORE HER

SO SHE NEGLECTED HER PERSONAL HYGIENE AND

PERSONAL CLEANLINESS .
A

SHE HAD NO APPETITE .

IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

CORRECT, THAT'S A FAIR STATEMENT .

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC .

14 2

.,.......

KID~

1

Q

AND THAT OF THE

2

A

CORRECT.

3

Q

DID SHE SEEM PARANOID TO YOU OR ANYTHING LIKE

4

5

AS WELL?

THAT, THAT YOU WOULD DESCRIBE AS PARANOID PERHAPS?
A

THE DAY BEFORE -- THE DAY BEFORE SHE LEFT

6

WHEN SHE WAS IN THE STORE AND SHE WAS SO IRATE ABOUT

7

LOUIS' MOTHER, SHE WAS JUST -- I MEAN SIT DOWN, STAND UP ,

8

SIT DOWN, STAND UP, AND SHE SAID THERE WAS NO MORE TO IT.

9

AND I KEPT SAYING , "WHAT ELSE IS WRONG? "

10

JUST BECAUSE THIS

11

OF HER BEDROOM.

12

COULD I FIGURE OUT A \'lAY?"

13
14
15

Q

WO~ffiN

WAS THERE.

IT COULDN'T BE

TELL HER TO STAY OUT

SHE WAS JUST, "I HAVE TO LEAVE.

H0\·7

SHE NEEDED THAT MONEY.

DID THIS CONVERSATION SEEM A LITTLE BIZARRE

TO YOU AT THE TIME WHAT SHE WAS SAYING THAT TO YOU?
A

EVERY TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THIS MAFIA

16

CONNECTION AND GOING INTO HIDING, I THOUGHT IT .WAS

17

BIZARRE.

18

KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT .

19

RESTRAINING ORDER ."

20

I HAD NO IDEA THAT IT WAS AS SERIOUS TO HER AS SHE WAS

21

MAKING IT SOUND, YOU KN0\\1 .

22

YOU ' RE UNHAPPY .

23

Q

SHE HAD W/1.TCHED TOO MANY PROGRAMS.

" YOU DON 'T

GO GET A DIVORCE.

GET A

AND IT WAS IN ONE EAR, OUT THE OTHER.

YOU TEND TO EXAGGERATE

~\IHEN

OTHER THAN THE MAFIA APPROACH, DO YOU RECriLL

24

ANY OTHER CONV ERSATIONS THAT SEEMED A LITTLE OUTRAGEOUS OR

25

BIZARRE TO YOU OR ANY OTHER RECURRING THEME IN HER

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

14 3

1

CONVERSATION? -

2

A

THAT INCLUDED LOUIS, YOU MEAN?

3

Q

OR ANYTHING IN GENERAL, AS YOU CAN RECALL

4
5

HERE TODAY.
A

I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY BIZARRE HOW SHE

6

HAS THIS MONEY COMING TO HER AND HOW SHE HAD RIGGED IT

7

WITH HER FOLKS TO LEAD THEM TO BELIEVE THAT IT WAS JUST

8

MONEY FOR HER.

9

MUST KNOW SHE'S GOING TO LAKE ELSINORE TO PICK UP THIS

I REALLY THOUGHT DOWN DEEP "WELL, LOUIS

10

MONEY TO ADD TO THEIR INCOME."

11

THING THAT SHE KEPT RETREATING BACK WAS THAT MAFIA THING

12

AND GOING INTO HIDING.

13

OUT WHAT SHE HAD TO DO IN ORDER TO STAY AWAY FROM HIM, IN

14

ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAr HE NEVER GOT BACK INTO HER LIFE.

15

Q

OTHER THAN THAT, NO.

HER

SHE HAD THAT COMPLETELY FIGURED

"DID SHE TALK TO YOU AT ALL ABOUT ANY STEPS

16

THAT SHE MIGHT HAVE TAKEN TO FIND OUT ABOUT HOW TO GO IN

17

HIDING OR DO ANY OF THAT?

18

A

THERE HAD BEEN AN ARTICLE IN THE PAPER THAT

19

HAD COME OUT BEFORE SHE LEFT , ABOUT AN UNDERGROUND --

20

SOMETHING UNDERGROUND FOR WOMEN, WHERE THEY TAKE YOU MID

21

THEY CHANGE YOUR NAME AND THEY DO ALL THIS STUFF .

22

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT SHE SAID, "I HAVE TO CHECK."

23

THERE WAS AN ARTICLE ABOUT A WOMAN WHO HAD DONE IT OR

24

SOMETHING ABOUT THE PAPER.

25

SOMETHING LIKE THAT," SHE SAID ABOUT GETTING AWAY.

AND

AND SHE SAID, "I HAVE TO DO

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

144

."""
Q

1

2

DO YOU KNOW APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT

DISCUSSION TOOK PLACE IN RELATION TO \vHEN SHE LEFT?

3

A

WITHIN SIX MONTHS.

4

Q

DID IT EVER COME UP MORE THAN THAT ONE TIME?

15
5

DID SHE EVER REFER TO THE UNDERGROUND?
A

6

AFTER SHE WOULD GO INTO A RAGE ABOUT HE

~.VAS

7

THE MAFIA AND IN A COMMENT , PASSING COMMENT, "WELL, THE

8

RAILWAY," BUT NOTHING SPECIFIC.
Q

9

SO AT FIRST IT WAS AN UNDERGROUND

10

ORGANIZATION AND THEN LATER SHE WOULD REFER TO IT AS

11

A "RAILWAY"?

12

A

UNDERGROUND RAILWAY, RIGHT.

13

Q

DID SHE EVER INDICATE TO YOU THAT SHE HAD

14

TAL~ED

TO ANYBODY ABOUT IT?

15

A

NO.

16

Q

SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER SHE DID OR WHETHER

17

SHE DIDN'T?

18

A

EXACTLY.

19

Q

WHEN YOU SAW HER USE THIS CRYSTAL METH, DID

20

SHE EVER DESCRIBE TO YOU HOW SHE FELT AFTER SHE· USED IT?

21

A

IT GAVE HER ENERGY.

22

Q

YOU HAD A SERIES OF DISCUSSIONS WITH HER

23

ABOUT HER DRUG USE, I ASSUME?

24

A

CORRECT.

25

Q

MANY OF THEM TELLING HER TO CLEAN UP HER ACT

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

145

1
2

AND STOP DRUG USE?
A

"SLOW DOWN."

MAYBE NOT CLEAN IT UP

3

COMPLETELY OR DROP IT COMPLETELY.

4

GOOD OF A SAMARITAN, BUT AT LEAST TO SLOW DOWN.

5
6

Q

I CAN 1 T SAY I WAS THAT

YOU COULD SEE IT WAS AFFECTING HER LIFE;

COULD YOU NOT?

7

A

YES.

8

Q

AND IT WAS NOT A POSITIVE EFFECT, WAS IT?

9

A

YES, EXACTLY.

10

Q

YES, IT WAS NOT A POSITIVE?

11

A

IT WAS NOT A POSITIVE EFFECT EXACTLY.

12

Q

YOU COULD SEE THAT IT WAS AFFECTING HER

13

CHILDREN THE WAY SHE CARED FOR THEM?

14

A

YES.

15

Q

DID SHE EVER TELL YOU WHY SHE TGOK THESE-

16

DRUGS BESIDES WANTING ENERGY?

17

A

NO.

18

Q

DID SHE EVER TELL YOU SHE COULDN 1 T STOP?

19

A

YES.

20

Q

DO YOU FEEL SHE WAS ADDICTED?

21

A

YES..

YET I HONESTLY THOUGHT WHEN SHE GOT

22

CAUGHT, WHEN THEY WENT FOR THE TRUCK AND WHEN LOUIS GAVE

23

HER THAT SECOND CHANCE, I HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS

24

MAKING AN ATTEMPT TO PUT HER LIFE TOGETHER AND "YOU GET

25

BACK INTO THE REAL WORLD,

11

SO TO SPEAK, AS I PUT IT.

KENNEDY COURT REPORTERS, INC.

AtTD


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